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steering agian

 
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:07 am    Post subject: steering agian Reply with quote

steve thanks for the pics,
i have been reading tony foals site
http://www.tonyfoale.com/
and have made up my mind to redo the front geometry to make my litestar easyier to steer, and to balance it better.
since one of the main problems is the rake i will carefully study what if any rake there is and increase it. this should make it eayier to steer (i hope) and make the litestar a true real balanceing machine.
as it is now my litestar is about impossible to steer at anything below 30 mph and at rolling speed (walking) takes two hands to muscle it in place. this is related to the geometry of the angles of the steering, rake and trail.
I have a friend who has a trike thats much heavier than my machine and it steers like a dream.. the next thing i will do after gettng the body off is the outriggers, making them retractable somewhat. I have two electric actuators that extend 18 inches and retract 12 with 150 lbs of force. I plan on mounting them where the control rods attach and try them with the frame naked. and new front unit on, for test driving.
steveg.
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Dave Bauer



Joined: 10 Oct 2004
Posts: 43
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:54 am    Post subject: Steering mods Reply with quote

Steve,
I'm considering doing the same things to mine. Please keep us posted on the status. Hopefully, you can design what Bede couldn't.
-Dave
Pulse 167
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-Dave Bauer
Pulse 167
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maxpeterson



Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 6
Location: Basehor Kansas

PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:32 am    Post subject: outrigger retraction Reply with quote

You might want to look over the patents that deal with retractable motorcycle outriggers. There is some interesting stuff, most notable is the system used on the Ecomobile.

I've ridden in an Eco and they transition in about a second, no chance for accidental tip-over. However its technology is 10 fold ahead of the Pulse..... along with its price.

Max
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steveg



Joined: 12 Nov 2003
Posts: 50
Location: otisco NY

PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:43 am    Post subject: steering agian!! Reply with quote

I have been studing the steering geometry and looking at everything i can on the subject, and found a very good artical on motorcycle steering rake and trail in a french magazine dated in the early 60's
the french is tough for me to translate but from what I can make of it the ideal rake and trail are closely related to each other and have effects on the steering, handeling at high and low speeds. too much of one and it steers hard, at slow speeds too much the other way and it handles like crap and is unstable.
so far I am seeing numbers like 4 inches of trail which is ideal.
but what i need is a side pic of a litestar NAKED no body. if anyone out there can provide me with a pic i can then back-calculate what i think would work to make this self balancing at most speeds.. i could determine what is ACTUALLY THERE.. NO GUESSING..
im not ready to peel mine off yet( body, .... hey its cold out!! LOL)
if anyone does please send it to me directly...
stevengeorge@usadatanet.net...
steveg.
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steve george litestar #009
otisco NY
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys. If your Pulse is hard to steer at slow speed you have a problem in your steering head or box. On my old Pulse #61, I could steer left and right easily at any time, even at a dead stop. Any other Pulse owners having a hard time steering at slow or no speed?
About the steering angles and trying to run upright like a motorcycle: Be careful! If I were going to attempt this I would graft on the entire front end from a large motorcycle, including the steering head, and mount the steering head at the same angle as it was on the motorcycle. That would ensure that the rake and trail were OK. Also the front end needs to be very stiff. Even if you have the correct steering geometry, any flexing of the forks or steering head or frame and the steering geometry changes. That could be disastrous. Also you need to run a motorcycle tire on the front. The normal automotive tire on a Pulse is not designed to lean in turns. It's flat on the bottom. It won't work properly on a motorcycle front end. On my Honda CB 750F when the front tire gets worn down, the handling gets squirrelly. A new tire fixs that. With the wrong steering geometry or a lot of flex you can get into whats called a high speed wobble or a tank slapper! A tank slapper is when the front wheel starts to oscillate side to side at speed and progresses until the handlebars are banging into the gas tank so quickly they are a blur. It doesn't last very long. It's an instant crash. Good luck guys and be careful.
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